Prurient or Feduciary? You make the Call.
For those who don't read the comments, I am attaching a comment by my friend Eric Lindberg that he left on ly rant on the Natuonal Punchline. I do so as a setup to what I want to talk about today (Hello, Neighbor!)
"Also, let me talk about this for a minute, as my goose is got. If you do comedy for a living, you have to accept all kinds of funny...even if you don't think it's funny. 50% of Artie Lang's stand up is making fun of "da fags" now I think Artie Lang is funny. I don't think those jokes are funny, (Well, one or two are) but I can't go WAIT! That's cheap! because people are laughing. It's like when certian asian improvisors used to get pissed that people do asian accents at IO, then they would go up there and play a retard or black guy...doesn't work that way...now there is a BIG diff between Gay Bashing jokes (that is when there is no punch line or irony or statement or anything) and funny gay humor (like, for instance, 100% of Ant's stuff, ok he's not that funny either, but you get my point) it's a slippery slope (Speaking Of Asians) That make sense? I also agree people are stupid and may interpret things as "That guy hates gays let's have a hearty laugh with him" (or blacks, or Jews, or mormons, or whatever...) but I don't think you can get hung up on that. In the long and short of it, I don't think people that do this are allowed to get offended at other comics stuff...not that my Juciy Fruit joke was A. All that funny B. something I'll EVER say again...but you see what I'm saying? It's all about dicating taste, about assigning standards to comedy, you can't do that...you just cant...am I crazy? Maybe, but I doubt it. much props to you both."
My wife took me to task on this as well, when I mentioned the National Punchline and Eric and Tara's comments. She is of the firm belief that there are things too taboo to do on any stage, even the Hot Karl. The conversation started as we were discussing Chappelle on Oprah. My third-hand understanding of the reason he cited for taking off to Africa was that a wite person was laughing at one of his jokes. Now, this shook me to the core, as I LOVE Dave Chappelle, and thisnk he's the best thing on TV today. As one of the commentators on BET's year in review show said, "America NEEDS Dave Chappelle (see: the Black Bush Sketch)".
After I discussed this with my wife, who had seen the interview (anybody got a copy I can have?), it turns out that he was concerned over how some white people were reacting to his racially-charged sketches, and was put off by someone laughing a little to hard at the way black people were portrayed in some of his sketches. Now, this makes much more sense, as he's expressed the same trepidation both on his show and on stage the one time I saw him live (the show was terrible).
This fostered a discussion between my wife and I regarding the power of politically incorrect humor (for want of a better term; this has nothing to do with the only man in the world less funny than Charles Grodin, Bill Mahr). I am of the belief that nothing should be off limits to me onstage. If I make a joke pointed at one group or another, it's to make a point. I never run onstage and scream an epithet to draw a reaction; it comes from a place of heightening, and usually is the ultimate part of the bit. The climax, if you will.
My wife teaches High school, particularly English, and a big part of their curriculum is "To Kill a Mockingbird" which, of course, is based on the Scottsboro lynchings. A whole day of discussion is based on the power of the N-word and what it means and how it's used. She thinks I should not be allowed to use the word at all. That it is not my place as a white man to use that word for comedy.
Another justifier: I think I can count one one hand the number of times I have said it onstage. For the uninitiated, what I do is entirely improvised, and I have only "gone there" following the direction of the show. I invite you to come see for yourself. But, the Hot Karl is improv at its purest. No form, no limits, no taboo. Much of the subject matter is based on people's differences and sex. But while I may make a racial joke in the course of the show, I am not a racist. To make an SAT-type analogy, I am no more a racist than I an the type of person who would attempt to copulate with someone's tracheotomy hole, which I've also joked about in a show.
My wife's basic argument is not that I am a racist though, and also ties up some of the comments Eric made. Her basic argument is not that the jokes are mean spirited, but even if they are meant to poke fun at those subject matters, and are beautifully ironic, what matters is how the audience perceives them. And we are back to Chappelle. I feel like I know what his comedy is about, but his problem comes in people coming up to him in Airports saying "Man, I love them jokes you make about them [N-words]". The danger is in the stupids. I guess it always is.
But will I censor myself so that the people who don't "Get It" are not misled? Hell no. I recognize that it's a huge responsibility, but I believe it's necessary not to be held down by limitations. Especially in a show like the Hot Karl.
As my father always said, "Fuck 'em if they can't take a Joke."
"Also, let me talk about this for a minute, as my goose is got. If you do comedy for a living, you have to accept all kinds of funny...even if you don't think it's funny. 50% of Artie Lang's stand up is making fun of "da fags" now I think Artie Lang is funny. I don't think those jokes are funny, (Well, one or two are) but I can't go WAIT! That's cheap! because people are laughing. It's like when certian asian improvisors used to get pissed that people do asian accents at IO, then they would go up there and play a retard or black guy...doesn't work that way...now there is a BIG diff between Gay Bashing jokes (that is when there is no punch line or irony or statement or anything) and funny gay humor (like, for instance, 100% of Ant's stuff, ok he's not that funny either, but you get my point) it's a slippery slope (Speaking Of Asians) That make sense? I also agree people are stupid and may interpret things as "That guy hates gays let's have a hearty laugh with him" (or blacks, or Jews, or mormons, or whatever...) but I don't think you can get hung up on that. In the long and short of it, I don't think people that do this are allowed to get offended at other comics stuff...not that my Juciy Fruit joke was A. All that funny B. something I'll EVER say again...but you see what I'm saying? It's all about dicating taste, about assigning standards to comedy, you can't do that...you just cant...am I crazy? Maybe, but I doubt it. much props to you both."
My wife took me to task on this as well, when I mentioned the National Punchline and Eric and Tara's comments. She is of the firm belief that there are things too taboo to do on any stage, even the Hot Karl. The conversation started as we were discussing Chappelle on Oprah. My third-hand understanding of the reason he cited for taking off to Africa was that a wite person was laughing at one of his jokes. Now, this shook me to the core, as I LOVE Dave Chappelle, and thisnk he's the best thing on TV today. As one of the commentators on BET's year in review show said, "America NEEDS Dave Chappelle (see: the Black Bush Sketch)".
After I discussed this with my wife, who had seen the interview (anybody got a copy I can have?), it turns out that he was concerned over how some white people were reacting to his racially-charged sketches, and was put off by someone laughing a little to hard at the way black people were portrayed in some of his sketches. Now, this makes much more sense, as he's expressed the same trepidation both on his show and on stage the one time I saw him live (the show was terrible).
This fostered a discussion between my wife and I regarding the power of politically incorrect humor (for want of a better term; this has nothing to do with the only man in the world less funny than Charles Grodin, Bill Mahr). I am of the belief that nothing should be off limits to me onstage. If I make a joke pointed at one group or another, it's to make a point. I never run onstage and scream an epithet to draw a reaction; it comes from a place of heightening, and usually is the ultimate part of the bit. The climax, if you will.
My wife teaches High school, particularly English, and a big part of their curriculum is "To Kill a Mockingbird" which, of course, is based on the Scottsboro lynchings. A whole day of discussion is based on the power of the N-word and what it means and how it's used. She thinks I should not be allowed to use the word at all. That it is not my place as a white man to use that word for comedy.
Another justifier: I think I can count one one hand the number of times I have said it onstage. For the uninitiated, what I do is entirely improvised, and I have only "gone there" following the direction of the show. I invite you to come see for yourself. But, the Hot Karl is improv at its purest. No form, no limits, no taboo. Much of the subject matter is based on people's differences and sex. But while I may make a racial joke in the course of the show, I am not a racist. To make an SAT-type analogy, I am no more a racist than I an the type of person who would attempt to copulate with someone's tracheotomy hole, which I've also joked about in a show.
My wife's basic argument is not that I am a racist though, and also ties up some of the comments Eric made. Her basic argument is not that the jokes are mean spirited, but even if they are meant to poke fun at those subject matters, and are beautifully ironic, what matters is how the audience perceives them. And we are back to Chappelle. I feel like I know what his comedy is about, but his problem comes in people coming up to him in Airports saying "Man, I love them jokes you make about them [N-words]". The danger is in the stupids. I guess it always is.
But will I censor myself so that the people who don't "Get It" are not misled? Hell no. I recognize that it's a huge responsibility, but I believe it's necessary not to be held down by limitations. Especially in a show like the Hot Karl.
As my father always said, "Fuck 'em if they can't take a Joke."
posted by Zach at 10:32 AM
4 Comments:
Check out this link. It basically makes the same argument your wife is making inre intention vs. perception:
http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/2005/11/metabigots.html
Good. Good stuff. I'd like to hear Jason R. Chin, or Brian Bragg, or Cesar Jamie or people of "color" if that the correct term, (it's not) who do this comedy (and quite well If I don't say so themselves), how they feel. I'd be interested in that.
PS: Why are you taking your dick out of your wife's mouth long enough for her to form a sentence? I MEAN COME ON!!!
(see what I did there?)
(K, I'm kidding, I'm kidding...she know's I'm kidding...lovely couple, lovely baby...)
i really could talk about this with you for hours. i believe everything everyone has said here to some degree or another, but i personally fear thestupids. i think for me, it comes frm a place of being immensely liberal, and, being on the side of what it really felt like to be gay and having slurs yelled at me now and then, i know it exists, i've lived it exists. can comedy help? or, does comedy hurt? yes and yes, and i don't know what to do with that.
i don't know that your comedy should ever be brought down, meaning, if you're doing smart improv with intention, a wink to those who understand, that's the best you can hope for. the bad comes when the wink is percieved as a high-five, a we-get-it-because-we're-the-same, a slap in the face to those different.
i guess we just navigate it best we can.
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